I don't think these are the same thing. There is some that say that a ned is just a chav in Scotland or Newcastle. However, I think Chavs are slightly higher up the social scale than Neds.
A Chav tends to have their mobile phone around their neck, Birberry baseball cap and white trainers. Some have quite a lot of cheap jewellery. The girls often have a baby in a pushchair and wear a pony tail at one side of the head.
A Ned can be told by the baseball cap being worn at a strange upturned andgle and they often have an anorak with the hood over the cap. Some of them tuck their tracksuit bottoms in to their socks. Female Neds are rare, but may be surprisingly pretty.
There is a little overlap in the subcultures but I think Chavs are an offshoot of the Hiphop culture whereas Neds are more simply a product of those which the Blair ideal has failed to embrace and have grown out of the council estate sink culture.
This is a very simplified analysis. Anyone care to comment?
Why bring sinks into it? Do they do a bit of tap dancing on the side?
Many very respectable and clever people have come from council estates. Dudley Moore and the historian Peter Ackroyd for a start.
And me....
Sink estate is a well known sociological expression.
Sorry, that might be misinterpreted.
I think chavs and neds are poor white trash, not everyone from a council estate.
I think chavs and such like are sadly victims of a society that promotes image above intellect and the parading of wealth and possessions above humanity. They, more than most, feel the pressure to express their identity and status through tasteless adornment of hideous clothes and jewellery. Their historical precendents are the Mods and before that the dandy boys of the regency period.
some popular charva sayings for skitting 'goths':
'have ya goth the time hew? av forgoth me watch.'
'hew! vincent van goth'
'dya drink gothy in tha mornin hew?'
'are you a goth hew? wots it like bein a goth hew? hew, what did ya choose to be a goth for like?'
(all are generally asked in a high-pitched voice, and come from groups of chavs standing at bus stands or behind the infamous 'smoker's wall'. and they're usually followed by hysterical laughter)
...hilarious...
My son and his mates (they're around 16) all have long hair and some would say are scruffy but they're all really nice guys. The chavs with their short hair and relatively smart sportswear are the ones that cause all the trouble in town. Strange but true.
I think the Chavs/Neds/Pikeys etc can be traced back to the late 1980's. They are the offspring of those that were in their formative years during the Thatcher era. The Chavs parents were probably about 13 in 1982, meaning that the Chavs were born in about 1987, making the bulk of them about 18 now, which I would say on average is about right.
It was during Thatcherism that the community ideals, which were the cornerstone of 1970's life were eroded. The reasons for this are complex, but it led to a chaotic fragmentation of society, leaving many people unable to embrace what I would call old fashioned values. Major's government, while different in tone to Thatcher's did nothing to address this lost generation and by the time Blair took power it was too late anyway. Had Blair followed a radical Social Democratic philosophy, which the country needed it might have at least redressed some of the problems fostered in the previous 15 years.
I would like to see the following radical policies adopted by the next government:
1. Anyone caught drinking and driving should receive an instant life driving ban. No warning. Finished.
2. The worst antisocial behaviour, i.e. twocking, arson, serious vandalism etc. Should be punished by an hour in the stocks, where the populace can throw rotten vegetables etc. This has the advantage over custodial sentences and the birch, as it is humiliating without being barbaric and would not make confer upon the culprits 'hero status'.
3. All children should receive a lesson in 'human diversity' from the age of ten to dispel the myth of race.
4. Chocolate would be free.
This has been a party political broadcast by the Bounty Party.
Cue... 'Jerusalem'
I love the idea of the stocks!
Yes to drink and drugs driving bans!
Free chocolate sounds good too!
Human diversity needs to be taught by everyone to everyone.
Anyone caught drinking and driving should receive an instant life driving ban. No warning. Finished.
They will reoffend with little to lose. Cut their hands off.
You have a lot in common with my mother Bounty - she's always on about bringing back the stocks. I suppose it would be somewhere different to go on a weekend!
] They will reoffend with little to lose. Cut their hands off.
yes and tattoo drink driver on their forehead. I think people who thieve should have their hands cut off and have thief tattooed on their forehead.
Rapists should have their c**k cut off.
Bloody hell. And i thought I was depressed!
Anti social behaviour is, indeed, a complex issue. My work brings me into contact with many "chav" types and I feel strongly that in their case the poor behaviour interlocks totally with the image they strive to create. For example, the hooded top worn with hood up over a baseball cap is a direct challenge to authority when worn in class (which I do not allow). Like the skinheads before them, the "uniform" trys to send a message to society which says "we are outside your rules and values. We do what we want". This is obviously because they FEEL alienated.
I very much agree with that, and I think society as a group has alot of blame at its feet for many things which have happened. But, once children become adults they become responsible for their own behaviour.