Post by: on January 21, 2007, 02:13:47 pm
What is racism? Would calling Gordon Brown, Gordon haggis be racist?
What constitutes racism? Does the victim have to be a different colour? I call Derbyshire folk sheepshaggers, is that racist?
Discuss.
Post by: oldspice on January 21, 2007, 03:03:05 pm
I think racism involves deliberate insults and discrimination aimed at a person or group simply because that person is a different race from the accuser.
Disliking someone on the grounds of their colour or race is racist.
You cannot say that people in Derbyshire are a different race from people in Yorkshire, so your example would not constitute racism, just ignorance and bad manners.
I do not think Jade's remarks were overtly racist but I think her dislike of Shilpa had racist overtones. Jade did not like an Indian having the cheek to be better looking than her, better educated than her, richer than her and even more popular than her. That, I believe, was the basis for the hostility towards Shilpa.
Post by: goldencup on January 21, 2007, 03:54:25 pm
Post by: oldspice on January 21, 2007, 04:38:58 pm
Post by: smurfboy on January 21, 2007, 05:32:56 pm
I was left wondering whether I ought to make out a 'Racial Incident Report'.
Really?
Post by: Forth Bridges on January 21, 2007, 06:30:59 pm
any time this happens is Racism, I stating to loss faith!"
Post by: goldencup on January 21, 2007, 06:55:13 pm
Quote from: goldencupI was left wondering whether I ought to make out a 'Racial Incident Report'.Really?
Really.
Post by: on January 21, 2007, 06:57:54 pm
I agree with most of your comments Oldspice but I think your argument begins to weaken here here. How different do the the agressor and the recipient of the abuse have to be to qualify for racism. English and Indian? English and Italian? Greek and jamaican? What about Japanese and Chinese? What factor represents a significant distance for the abuse to be classed as racist?
I think that there are no races to be racist against, i.e there is just one race - the human race and what we deem to be race is in fact down to skin colour or perceived ethnic differences. The classification of English and Indian as racially different but not Yorkshireman and Derbyshire folk is illogical and not borne out by science. Let's do away with the word racism and call it what it is - COLOUR predjudice.
Post by: goldencup on January 21, 2007, 07:05:32 pm
Rubbish - colour prejudice is just one part of it. You can be racist about the Welsh, South Africans, Australians etc- regardless of their colour. Come to think of it, I myself find South African women (in general) very aggressive and Americans very nice and friendly. So I must be racist
Post by: Forth Bridges on January 21, 2007, 07:38:58 pm
RACE - More than Just couler!
But I still think most people think every thing is raced to PC now adays!
Post by: smurfboy on January 21, 2007, 07:40:58 pm
Quote from: smurfboyQuote from: goldencupI was left wondering whether I ought to make out a 'Racial Incident Report'.Really?
Really.
I just can't believe we live in a world of such ridiculous political correctness and bureaucracy that a childish remark like that could possibly be considered a 'racial incident'.
Post by: kevvosa on January 21, 2007, 07:45:30 pm
Post by: smurfboy on January 21, 2007, 07:47:39 pm
Post by: Forth Bridges on January 21, 2007, 07:49:02 pm
Post by: kevvosa on January 21, 2007, 07:50:25 pm
Post by: Forth Bridges on January 21, 2007, 07:54:37 pm
but what I hate is I phone a call centre but its in aisa!
as you know I;m disyliic and I can;t speak to those flok as I can;t spell thing out to them I do have a go at them!!!
I'm surposre to calling a person WHO KNOW English thourgh and thourgh
Post by: kevvosa on January 21, 2007, 07:57:40 pm
but what I hate is I phone a call centre but its in aisa!
That annoys me too. I've been on the phone ages trying to make them understand what I'm saying.
Post by: Forth Bridges on January 21, 2007, 08:03:37 pm
I go for them and state i'm disylick.... I have just had to complaint from any company about my action towards staff!
Post by: oldspice on January 21, 2007, 08:04:06 pm
To say that the only true racism is colour prejudice is, as Goldencup put it, rubbish.
Within the huge Asian category, there is a massive amount of racism. The Hindus do not, generally like the Muslims. The Sikhs definitely don't like the Muslims (although their religion acutally refutes this). Even some Muslims will hurt and kill other Muslims of a different caste - look at Iraq and Afghanistan.
Then look at our own history and the way the English treated the Irish - based on perceptions of race and culture.
If you must categorise squabbles between people from different counties then call it regional prejudice.
Post by: on January 21, 2007, 08:45:42 pm
Anthropologists now accept that we differ mostly by our language and culture. Race is a myth.
Post by: goldencup on January 22, 2007, 07:25:32 am
To me, if the kids had gone up to an Asian and called him or her a 'f**king Paki' or similar, THAT would be a racial incident. The comment made was thoughtless, childish and yes, probably racist, but it wasn't an incident.
I agree and that's why I didn't make an official note of it but seriously - we are supposed to!
Post by: goldencup on January 22, 2007, 07:43:13 am
Post by: oldspice on January 22, 2007, 04:46:12 pm
A culture. Race is about ethnicity whereas culture is how a group of people express themselves socially, politically, historically - in art, religion, literature, music etc.
My first degree was in Cultural and Historical Theory and we spent years studying culture in all its aspects.
I agree about the Korean kids. They work so hard - so do the Chinese and those from Thialand and The Phillipines. They put our kids to shame.
It's true also that the Jewish people are industrious and artisitcally talented. That's why they get on so well wherever they settle.
Post by: Velvet Darkness on January 23, 2007, 02:06:44 am
You cannot say that people in Derbyshire are a different race from people in Yorkshire, so your example would not constitute racism, just ignorance and bad manners.
I was born in Yorkshire, and all my family were Yorkshire born and bred, ("Yorkshire born and Yorkshire bred, strong in the arm and thick in the head" as the quote goes. Ooops is that racism? Can you be racist against your own people I wonder? 
) and most Yorkshire people proudly consider people from anywhere else to be not simply another race but oftentimes a whole different species!
I think that any race of people can be racist, it is not simply a matter of colour difference. From my time spent in Wales I have been shown that prejudice between same colour but different race is very much alive and flourishing.
"The only people the Welsh hate more than the English are the Irish." This is a quote from one of the very first people I met when I moved down here, I thought he was joking, but during the last 8 years I have realised that unfortunately he was not.
I had not thought about Wales as a seperate country in all the time I lived in Yorkshire, it was simply a part of the British Isles, like Scotland and Northern Ireland. I did not know that they were unhappy about it, or that they wanted to be a seperate country, not until I moved here and realised all the different ways there are of seeing your race, country of origin and indeed your nationality.
It is much more complicated than colour and creed, and it is a serious issue that gets more tangled and confusing the more you try to get to the bottom of it.
Post by: oldspice on January 23, 2007, 07:04:59 am